The Holy Rosary in traditional form, no  Luminous mysteries

Our Lady Of Fatima

Our Lady Of Fatima

The Holy Rosary in traditional form with no Luminous mysteries. I have decided to compile the Rosary in it’s traditional form without the Luminous mysteries that Pope John Paul recommended in his APOSTOLIC LETTER Rosarium Virginis Mariae dated October 16th 2002. But before I go any further, let me explain why I did this. pdf  Download Rosary PDF

The Church that Jesus Christ established is a Hierarchical Church, with Jesus being the Head, then the Apostles (with the bishop of Rome being first among equals), then Cardinals/Priests then Deacons and then the laity.  This order of rank comes from our Lord Jesus himself. This was clearly known even as the Church was starting to take shape, for when Mary Magdalene found the Tomb empty, “She ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciples”, notice Peter is first, and the other disciples. When Peter and the other disciple both ran to the tomb, the other disciple reaches the tomb first but waited for Peter.  In the Acts of The Apostles, chapter 2, verse 14, “But peter, standing with the Eleven, lifted up his Voice and addressed them”,. Whenever the Apostles are listed or numbered in Scripture, Peter is always first. But it was when Jesus gave Peter the “Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven” that it solidifies the Church a Hierarchy. So, the Catholic Church, the one true Church established by Jesus Christ is Hierarchical, always has been. This is very important when dealing with the rubrics of the Church and most especially of the Mass. Using the Mass as an example; the main focal point is the Eucharistic Liturgy. This comes from our Lord Jesus Himself because He commanded it. It was not a suggestion or a recommendation but a commandment by God Himself.

So the words and form of the Eucharistic Liturgy come from our Lord Jesus and then through the Church. (1 Corinthians 10:14-22). So, a layman, Priest or Bishop cannot change the Mass because the Mass comes from the Church, which comes from Jesus the Christ. Another example would be, the now very common, holding of hands by the congregation during the “Our Father”. Many Churches these days feel compelled to require the congregation to hold hands but this is wrong! The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) says nothing of requiring the faithful to hold hands. If the Church does not require it, by who’s authority is the faithful being asked to obey? This is what is known as the “tail wagging the dog” and many Priests and sadly Bishops seem to think that the Mass comes from them, a wicked thing that comes from the Devil himself because it breaks the unity that our Lord prayed for. If individuals want to hold hands during the “Our Father”, there is nothing stopping them, it is only when the individuals require it of other individuals that it becomes anti-hierarchical.

It is with this knowledge that I decided to put the Traditional Rosary in a format that is downloadable and printable. It was very difficult to find how to pray the Rosary before the Luminous Mysteries were added. Every avenue I found seemed completely fixated on the fact that the Luminous mysteries were required when the opposite is true. Not only is it not required, but I dare say it is best not to include them. It is widely reported that Pope John Paul added the Luminous Mysteries in 2002 in his APOSTOLIC LETTER Rosarium Virginis Mariae, and this is a true statement. What is not widely reported is that it is completely optional. Not only that, it is up to the individuals whether they wish to include the added mysteries or not. Here is the quote from section 19 where he adds the proposed addition; “I believe, however, that to bring out fully the Christological depth of the Rosary it would be suitable to make an addition to the traditional pattern which, while left to the freedom of individuals and communities, could broaden it to include the mysteries of Christ’s public ministry between his Baptism and his Passion.” Screen Shot 2013-12-20 at 10.27.58 PM You may read the entire Apostolic Letter here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html

The Pope was not speaking “Ex Cathedra”, this is not a Dogmatic Constitution, it was a recommendation. Tradition tells us that St. Dominic, around 1221 AD, gave us the Rosary in its current form from a vision he had of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (Minus the Luminous Mysterious)  In the Apparitions of Our Lady in Fatima, our Mother tells the children that she is the “Lady of the Rosary”, the Virgin Mary. In 1925, December 10th, Sister Lucia received another apparition by the Child Jesus and the Virgin Mary at her convent. There she asked  for reparation for all of the blasphemies and ingratitude by ungrateful men;

  • For five months, on the first Saturday, confess
  • Receive Holy Communion
  • Recite the Rosary
  •  “keep me company for 15 minutes while meditating on the
    fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, in spirit of reparation.”

“I promise to assist them at the hour of death with all of the graces necessary for the salvation of their souls” Here, our Lady clearly indicates that she requires “fifteen mysteries”, not twenty but fifteen. Pope John Paul II did not require twenty mysteries he only recommended the additional, so where is the authority coming from that we must pray the Luminous Mysteries when our Lady clearly states fifteen?

pdf Download Rosary PDF

To find out more about the apparitions at Fatima, please go here: http://fatima.org

Also, here is a blog post that makes some good points regarding Mary’s Psalter and the History of Mary’s Psalter. http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20021108_The_Twenty_Mysteries_of_the_Rosary.html

Indulgences attached to the Rosary

According to The Handbook of Indulgences A plenary indulgence is granted when the rosary is recited in a church or oratory or when it is recited in a family, a religious community, or a pious association. A partial indulgence is granted for its recitation in all other circumstances. It has become customary to call [one set of mysteries] the “rosary” also. Concerning this customary usage then, the following norms are given regards a plenary indulgence.

  1. The recitation of [one set of mysteries] is sufficient for obtaining the plenary indulgence, but these five decades must be recited without interruption.
  2. Devout meditation on the mysteries is to be added to the vocal prayer.
  3. In its public recitation the mysteries must be announced in accord with approved local custom, but in its private recitation it is sufficient for the Christian faithful simply to join meditation on the mysteries to the vocal prayer.
  4. In the Eastern Churches where recitation of the Marian rosary as a devotional practice is not found, the patriarchs can establish other prayers in honor of the blessed Virgin Mary which will have the same indulgences as those attached to the rosary, (e.g., in the Byzantine churches, the Akathist hymn, or the office Paraclisis). (79-80)

 

Sermon from October 2nd 2016: New Mass to New Rosary

 

UPDATE: The Vatican has completely changed their website and all links are broken! You can still see the original website on http://archive.org/web/ Just copy the links above and paste them into their search engine.

43 thoughts on “The Holy Rosary in traditional form, no Luminous Mysteries.

  1. Pingback: Vatican II is a disaster! | Joao's Blog

  2. Sulkowski Paul OSF

    One thing I find interesting about the Rosary is the Fatima prayer. Here we are presented with the traditional way to say the Rosary. Also, what grabbed me is the statement that it was difficult to find any information on how to say the Rosary before JP-II’s addition of the Luminous Mysteries.

    In my Family Bible (one of the big “stately Bibles” Douey Rhimes Translations published in the 1960s), there were instructions on how to say the Rosary. I noted that the Fatima Prayer is never mentioned (I never even heard of it until about five years ago). I don’t say the Luminous mysteries or the Fatima Prayer when I say the Rosary.

    1. Joao Post author

      You are correct, the Fatima Prayer is not required as per the 1962 Missal, anything before or after the three Mysteries is devotional and there by optional. Being Portuguese and a believer in the apparition the prayer makes sense to me and it did come directly from our Lady.

      1. joana miranda

        What harm is it to pray more.? In these times we are living in, God is giving us more graces. We need more prayers for those who say no prayers, if we are going to be so precise on what is written, why have we changed the only prayer our Lord has left us with, the “Our Father”, our Lord said forgive our debts not trespasses ! The two words have two totally different meaning.
        So many apparitions have happen, such as The Fatima apparitions, which i don’t think they are recorded in the Bible, What if we had ignored our Lady’s request’s.

      2. Margaret

        I’m with you, Joao, only praying what was given to us by Mary. 15. Anything added is added by man & to me, not Jesus. I’m traditional, pre Vatican II all the way….

  3. Kim

    But my question would be, why not pray the luminous mysteries? I don’t hear anyone telling me I must pray them, but why not? They’re beautiful. They allow us to meditate on other important moments in Christ’s life, most especially the Eucharist. And in the pope’s words, it’s “fitting”. I really don’t think that the Blessed Mother and JP2 are in opposition over this….

    1. Sarah

      Because they wreck the 15 mysteries, break the tradition, are meaningless and finally, they were introduced by a false pope.

    2. Diane

      “I really don’t think that the Blessed Mother and JP2 are in opposition over this…”
      What we “think” is not relevant. What matters is that the Blessed Mother gave St. Dominic 15 Mysteries and instructed that the faithful meditate on the 15. St. Pope John Paul II only recommended the five additional. Had the Blessed mother wanted 20 mysteries, she would have said so. We don’t live by what we “think” about what God or the Blessed Mother said or did, but what in actuality was handed down to us from them.

  4. Joao Post author

    Hello Kim, it is a matter of obedience. The Rosary, like the Our Father, is a prayer that does not come from the Church but from Heaven. The Our Father comes from our Lord Himself and the Rosary comes from our Blessed Lady so the Church hierarchy has not authority to change what they did not give. Much like the Church has not authority to change the Gospel but only preach it. Further more, because its 150 Hail Mary’s correspond to the 150 Psalms of the Psalter adding another mystery breaks that link. I recommend you click on the link at the bottom of the post, it has more detail that I think you are looking for.

    Pray for us all!

  5. Arnold flores

    50 years later, I have finally found the path I was on prior to Vatican II. After much confusion, angst and frustration, I have come to know of the Congregation of Saint Gertrude The Great in West Chester, Ohio. Prior to that, I was a close follower of the SSPX…

  6. Michael Fuller

    You should try the version of the Fatima prayer in Latin that is promoted by the Fatima Center and Fr. Gruner, R.I.P.

    O mi Iesu, dimitte nobis PECATTA nostra, líbera nos ab ignibus inferni, perduc omnes animas in caelum, praesertim maxime indigentes. Amen.

  7. Anthony Langford

    Hello and many thanks for this website!
    I have prayed the ‘Mysteries of light’ on and off since their ‘introduction’ but from now on I will pray the traditional 15 as given by our Blessed Mother. I heard a priest explaining the 5 mysteries of light are a wonderful meditation on the life of our Blessed Lord and by all means can be prayed as a chaplet but are not part of the Holy Rosary only the traditional 15 are. So basically when one feels it would be good praying and meditating on the new mysteries go ahead but are not actually part of the Rosary.
    Thank you for your your prayers.
    Anthony

    1. Joao Post author

      Anthony, I am sorry I did not see your post earlier, could not agree with you more!

  8. Douglas

    This morning at Mass our freshly ordained priest told us that if we are distracted during prayer, perhaps we need to pause and reflect on what is distracting us. Fair enough. Perhaps that is something which requires our special attention. If we are praying the Rosary, and it isn’t doing anything for us, we should set it down and pray something else, as the Rosary is just a tool, and we are not required to pray the Rosary daily. He doesn’t.

    After Mass I asked him, shouldn’t we then later pick the Rosary back up, and resume praying it? Aren’t people going to hear that they don’t need to pray the Rosary? No, says he, it is just a tool. That’s ok, the Rosary is just a tool. He did tell me he has other ‘consecrating to Mary prayers’ that he says, but he didn’t elaborate on what those were. I think, if given a choice, I’ll pick a different priest for confession. I find this unsettling.

      1. Victoria Tellez

        Thank you for link! I have wanted the Douay-Rheims Bible but could not afford one right now. Now, I can read it online from your link…thank you so much! Christ be with you forevermore.

    1. Michael

      Douglas – he is correct. Saying the Rosary is entirely optional. All of it.

      If you dig into the writings of the Doctors of the Church (St. Alphonus comes to mind most readily) – they will note that ALL saints (Yes, ALL) became saints not because of the Rosary, but because of Mental Prayer. (Rosary is one type)

      The key to spiritual advancement (St. Alphonus, Thomas Aquinas, De Sales, etc etc) is mental prayer. They go so far as to say that spiritual advancement is impossible without it. Thats quite a statement indeed! It is THE number one devotion, ahead of the Rosary. De Sales actually makes this point crystal clear in The Devout Life.

      Why?

      Because only through mental prayer are you able to better participate in mass, meditate on the mysteries of the rosary, etc. Mental prayer leads you into ALL other types of prayer. It makes your ability to say the Rosary BETTER.

      As Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross write, there are 9 levels of prayer. The Rosary is about level 1.5 because it is vocal and contemplative. But this is just the beginning of the spiritual life, and spiritual theology. They make a point of instructing people that prayer life is not simply about saying a certain number of rote prayers…its a conversation with the Trinity. Mental prayer is an interview with God.

      Back on point – of course the Rosary is excellent and wonderful…but it is but one tool in a much larger toolbox. Of course we should say it daily if we can. Yes, Yes, Yes. Learn to say it as best you can.

      But the Rosary is not an end. It is simply a means to draw closer to Christ.

      And please don’t be unsettled if someone doesn’t say the Rosary, especially a priest. That priest might be a very devout and holy man. I pray he is. (There is a big difference between him telling you not to say it and him having a different devotion. He can still be very holy and devout.)

      Take a look at De Sales and St. Alphonsus – and check out mental prayer. There is an outstanding book by TAN written by Dom Lehodey that details mental prayer.

      1. tim

        Our blessed mother told the children at fatima to pray the rosary daily..as we all should be..those that say otherwise are wrong

    2. christmas333

      I found tradcatknight.blogspot.com to be the best blog to go to if you are searching for the “true” teachings of the Catholic Church. Bishop LaFebvre who founded the SSPX (who are no longer following Bishop LaFebvre true teachings of the Catholic Church, but joining up with the Heretical Vatican II church, left it years ago because he could not be in union with heresy, and held to the true teachings of the Apostles given to them by Jesus. TradCatKnight, also left SSPX and now has a blog that tells us everything that is happening in the novus ordo church and giving us traditional prayers and locations of priests that are resisting Vatican II changes. In a state of necessity like we are in today and have been since Vatican II, we are not obligated to follow what is going on in the new church, to go to church where the true teachings have been watered down to nothing. We can no longer go to these and you will NOT find a real priest in the novus ordo mass anymore. It is also a mortal sin to go to one, we are endangering our souls, and causing scandal to others who are thinking that the Modernism being taught in the church is what Jesus taught. On TradCat you can also read proof of what the 3rd secret of Fatima really says from Lucia herself to priests in her life. And the Blessed Mother said we must Pray the Rosay every day for the conversion of Russia. Putin has already gone to Pope Francis and asked for the Pope to Consecrate Russia to Her immaculate heart and he said, NO. Francis is a modernist.

      Canticles (Solomon) 6:9
      Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in array?

      Brothers and Sisters, I write to you in behalf of the Selfless Love and peace of the Union and Marriage of Jesus Christ and of His Sacred Heart and all the blessings that flow forth from It. In times of supposed uncertainty we have recourse to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Our Ark of Hearts. She is a powerful intercessor, who warns before the “Storm” and who the enemy fears very much. I recall reading in the Memoirs of an Anti-Apostle of how an “infiltrator Marxist” even recognized how powerful She is. This wolf, knew, without question, that when Mary is implored miracles happen. He further knew that it was Mary who could steer the Church out of the present crisis. He knew the Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart was vital to world peace hence why the enemy in the Vatican continues to ignore and tap dance around this command of heaven. Let us take a further look into Our Lady as this “One Woman Army”. She is terrible to behold (in a good way) and who will show no mercy to the enemy when the appointed time arrives.

      The Intercession Of Our Lady invokes the Lord. And David arose and went, with all the people that were with him of the men of Juda to fetch the ark of God, upon which the name of the Lord of hosts is invoked… 2 Kings 6:2 Through Mary to Jesus. We implore the Immaculate Heart that we might come to a deeper understanding of the Sacred Heart of Christ. David arose to fetch the Ark and so too must we “actively seek” our Queen. She is the Guide of the Fortress of the Soul. We must seek Her out so that She might show us the path to His Sacred Heart which is found in the highest floor and most inward room in this Fortress where two hearts become One. Indeed She is a guide in this union of hearts (wills). Do not delay any longer and invoke our Lady.

      The enemy has captured our Queen? And the ark of God was taken…1 Kings 4:11 Since Vatican II we can say the enemy “has taken” the Ark. The Modernists are the modern day Philistine’s. They have heard us singing aloud and the trumpets sounding. They have in a certain sense stolen Her from our camp. They now use the Blessed Virgin Mary in many cases to further the New Religion. From the “new” and “expanded” (luminous mysteries) Rosary of JP II to the latest false apparition sites around the world Mary is being “used”. However, these sites all lead back to erroneous doctrine. The enemy has captured Our Queen yet still so many “traditionalists” do not pray for Her return!

      The Blessed Virgin Mary warns. So the ark of the Lord went about the city once a day, and returning into the camp, abode there. And Josue rising before day, the priests took the ark of the Lord, [13] And seven of them seven trumpets, which are used in the jubilee: and they went before the ark of the Lord walking and sounding the trumpets: and the armed men went before them, and the rest of the common people followed the ark, and they blew the trumpets. [14] And they went round about the city the second day once, and returned into the camp. So they did six days. Joshua 6:11-14 Upon meditating on this Scripture today I find it interesting that “trumpet sounds” are now being heard worldwide and why? Because precedence has been established in the Word that the trumpet sounds before the Ark then cometh the chastisement. It is a warning and although more than likely not supernatural in origin (trumpet sounds) this is still not a coincidence that God is allowing it. She goes before the chastisement to warn of the destruction coming. The Blessed Virgin Mary has been “circling the city” now for 6 days and the seventh day is soon coming wherein the trumpets will sound again (last time) and we shall shout and witness the New World Order fall. Some shall witness (after the fact) on God’s Day of Wrath, more specifically, the three days of darkness, O’ how mighty the true God is! Do you hear the trumpets O’ Islam? Communist? Marxist? Protestant? Jew? Modernist? We are circling “Jericho” like eagles letting the enemy know they and their new city of man are about to fall.

      Our Lady goes before us into battle. And again he said: By this you shall know that the Lord the living God is in the midst of you, and that he shall destroy before your sight the Chanaanite and the Hethite, the Hevite and the Pherezite, the Gergesite also and the Jebusite, and the Amorrhite. Behold the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth shall go before you into the Jordan. Joshua 3:10-11 It is not by human efforts that we will achieve the victory. For, although, wilst we work in and with the Blessed Virgin Mary, the source of this victory is above our pay grade. She has been given the victory by God Himself in these times and thus Mary, as Co-redemptrix, will yet again show the world that when “invoked” She can aide/help save humanity. She knows the war we must fight the battles. We point to her who in return shalst point to God. All glory goes back to the true and Living God! Mary’s simplicity and humility is like no other. Will you spread your wings of Faith and Hope and follow her lead for your own lives?

      The Enemy Fears of Our Lady. And when the ark was lifted up, Moses said: Arise, O Lord, and let thy enemies be scattered, and let them that hate thee, flee from before thy face. Numbers 10: 35 We lift high our Blessed Queen “in veneration” and rightfully so. And when we do so the enemy scatters for he who wouldst hateth our Queen likewise hateth the King. The enemy (the devils) is not indifferent towards our Lady they are utterly distraught upon seeing Her. They tremble, they mutter and curse for Her heel is always standing on the neck of the serpent. The devil’s time is short and yet he will try to convince everyone that not only was the Fatima message not important but further he will tempt men into not believing in it at all. Why thence do you hide O’ enemy the truth of the third secret? The mighty seek a place in this world and yet it is Our Lady who helps us to break from this world. Do not fear the one who wilst lead you to the world fear succumbing to self that you might adjoin your heart to this world. Furthermore, watch the Church’s enemies soon flee in terror when the Sun dances for a second time! Thereis no bunker deep enough for them to hide in.

      Nay, She is not a spectator in the battle. She is active and going before us bringing the house of the enemy down. Yet how few look to her as a priority for their own interior battles. Therefore, I must ask, “Do you have your weapon, the Rosary, drawn O’ Knight of Christ? Do you have on your armor, the Scapular, O’ Handmaids of Our Queen”? She is not a “last resort” or is the last line of defense She is our front line offense who takes it right to the enemy’s face. Our Lady is no pacifist and her eagles lay claim to her nest. Therefore, in faith circle the city in which you seek to overcome and watch Our Lady deliver! May the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady guide, protect and preserve your heart every day in this exile, Ave Maria!- Amen

      “ONE DAY, THROUGH THE ROSARY AND THE SCAPULAR, SHE WILL SAVE THE WORLD.”

      – St. Dominic’s Prophecy of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Rosary and the Scapular, AD 1208

      Genesis 7:14-15 (14)And the Lord God said to the serpent: because thou has done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and the beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life. (15) I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: SHE WILL CRUSH THY HEAD, AND THOU SHALT LIE IN WAIT FOR HER HEEL.

      RUN DON’T WALK AWAY FROM THE NOVUS ORDO MODERN CHURCH IF YOU WANT TO GET TO HEAVEN. THEY ARE ALL LIARS AFTER THE FATHER OF LIES!!! Pray the Rosary first every day and Our Lady will lead us to her Son and away from Lucifer. Do NOT read any books written today.

      GO TO TRADCATKNIGHT.BLOGSPOT.COM and find out the truth. THERE IS NO REAL PRIESTS IN THE NOVUS ORDO CHURCH OR BISHOP OR POPE SINCE VATICAN II. EVEN POPE PAUL II WAS A MODERNIST.

    3. Steve

      Sounds as if you’ll be told next that Mass is just a meal, and all this transubstansiation is all medieval hocus pocus! If I were you I’d find a more Traditional Church!

      1. Tito Pedruco

        Hi Dave, thanks for the tip, coupon code and answer to my prayer for which Rosary book to buy next. Thanks to your comment I bought one for each of my family members. You may be interested in a newly published, comprehensive book on the Holy Rosary entitled, “Champions of the Rosary”, by Fr. Donald Calloway. This book is fantastic, highly recommended, and in my humble opinion, a MUST-BUY if you’re interested in the Rosary of Our Blessed Virgin Mother in Heaven. The book is worth double or triple the price due to it’s extensive research, content and beautiful pictures of our Lady at the end of the book.

        God bless,
        Tito

        P.S. Famous saints have been distracted (even falling asleep) while praying the rosary and they said don’t worry too much about it, just keep praying and bring your focus back to the rosary.

    4. Diane

      The Blessed Mother asked us to pray the Rosary daily. ‘If we don’t get anything out of it…’. the priest said. The real question is what are we putting into it, what devotion do we have to praying the Holy Rosary? What is it that we expect to happen to us without our devotion to it and our Lady? The Blessed Virgin said that there are many graces we will receive from praying her Rosary, and if you do a search you will find what those graces and promises are she made to us. I would do the same thing you did (or thought about doing) Douglas: change confessors.

  9. Barbara Furtado

    Where can I purchase a rosary in traditional form

    1. Joao Post author

      Hi Barbara, the rosaries themselves have not changed, only the way they are prayed. Any Rosary will do, preferably one that has been blessed though.

  10. Tito Pedruco

    Hi Joao, thank you very much for your blog and Rosary PDF. I tried looking for the Rosary prayers and mysteries (without Luminous) the way that our Blessed Virgin Mary gave us, but couldn’t easily find it on the Vatican website. Your Rosary PDF is comprehensive and inspired, I truly enjoy it. By the way, my middle name is Joao. Thanks again and may God bless you.

    1. Joao Post author

      Hello Tito, I am pleased you found my blog… it literally is the ramblings of my mind 🙂 Here is a little interesting note, shortly after I created the PDF file from PowerPoint, I accidentally deleted the original copy. That means I have no real way of modifying the document, it is now set in virtual stone!

      The name Joao, is a good name! 🙂

  11. melody

    hi! Joao
    . how can I fine the original prayer guide now?the original rosary guide pls! tell were I can fine it.

  12. Mike

    Are you related to the Machado family that is cousins with the Gracie family?

    1. Joao Post author

      Never heard of the Gracie family… What part of the world?

      1. Nick Storm

        I think Mike was referring to the Gracie and Machado Jiu Jitsu family from Brazil.

  13. Linsky

    I think im traditional and light mystries dont go well with me as an inclution to the traditional rosary. For me its a no no. Id rather just do the chaplet than do mystries of light. And what happened to the traditional rosary, its so hard to get it these days!

    1. Pascal

      The Rosary is most certainly a beautiful prayer, and it has become beautifully integrated in many customs of the Roman Church, but it is not a pillar of Catholicism. Eastern Churches (including Eastern Catholic Churches) have never upheld this practice (except through latinization), as the Rosary developed and spread after 1054 in Western Europe (after 1170 if you believe the pious story around St Dominic). In the Middle Ages, the Rosary was popularized in a context where most lay people could not read and thus could not pray the Hours. It was seen a good substitute to pray continuously.

      If one finds himself spiritually uplifted by praying the Rosary, with 15 or 20 mysteries, then blessed be God. But let us not pretend that one form or another are the traditional prayer of the Church.

      If you want to be traditional, then remember that the prayer of the Church has always been the Liturgy of the Hours — as it is called in the West. The Church had been praying it even before St Basil and St Jerome. If you don’t insist on being traditional, then please don’t take a superior tone to those who pray using 20 mysteries. If you follow, you will note that “traditionalists” vocal on this thread (SSPX, sedevacantists, etc.) are in fact very comfortable adopting new practices completely unknown to the first millenium of Christianity and presenting them as quintessential … so long as it hasn’t happened in the last century.

      Lastly, to suggest that the Our Father (the prayer taught by Christ as recorded in Holy Scripture) is equivalent to the Rosary (a pious custom dating back to the Middle Ages) is completely heterodox. It suggests a complete misunderstanding of what Revelation is, at taught by the Catholic Church. Likewise, to suggest that the reported words of the Mother of God to the children of Fatima somehow changes Revelation and Divine Law is preposterous.

      Remember, as Michael points out above, that the Rosary is a tool to unite with Christ … and if, rather, you get irritated by the Luminous Mysteries suggested by St John Paul II or bothered when some don’t add the Fatima prayer, then you are not using this tool properly.

      1. Joao Post author

        You are not Catholic… why are you posting here? I can read right through your post!

        1. Pascal

          Joao, you are mistaken. I am Catholic. Even if I were not, however, that would change nothing to the content I wrote above. I would be much more interested in reading a reasoned response to the points I raise rather than an attempt at discrediting my comments by pointing the finger at me.

          I am from the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church — a Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholic Church in full communion with the Holy See, and the second-largest particular church (sui juris) in the Catholic Church (after the Roman Church).

          If you are not willing to debate with me, you may choose to debate with the Catholic Encyclopedia — after all a good “Roman” source.

          http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13001a.htm

          “It remains here to distinguish the Christian Revelation or “deposit of faith” from what are termed private revelations. This distinction is of importance: for while the Church recognizes that God has spoken to His servants in every age, and still continues thus to favour chosen souls, she is careful to distinguish these revelations from the Revelation which has been committed to her charge, and which she proposes to all her members for their acceptance. That Revelation was given in its entirety to Our Lord and His Apostles. After the death of the last of the twelve it could receive no increment. It was, as the Church calls it, a deposit — “the faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude, 2) — for which the Church was to “contend” but to which she could add nothing. Thus, whenever there has been question of defining a doctrine, whether at Nicæa, at Trent, or at the Vatican, the sole point of debate has been as to whether the doctrine is found in Scripture or in Apostolic tradition. The gift of Divine assistance (see I), sometimes confounded with Revelation by the less instructed of anti-Catholic writers, merely preserves the supreme pontiff from error in defining the faith; it does not enable him to add jot or tittle to it. All subsequent revelations conferred by God are known as private revelations, for the reason that they are not directed to the whole Church but are for the good of individual members alone, They may indeed be a legitimate object for our faith; but that will depend on the evidence in each particular case. The Church does not propose them to us as part of her message.”

          1. Joao Post author

            No, you are not a Catholic of any Rite! I know what you are…. I will leave your comments up just so people can see how deceivers operate….

          2. Pascal

            Joao, your words are offensive. You write again that I am not Catholic, which is, and was meant to be, insulting. Perhaps you deny that Eastern Catholics are “true” Catholics, or perhaps you are saying that I don’t truly belong to an Eastern Catholic Church.

            Either way, if this blog is meant for discussion rather than slander, I would ask that you explain what I have written that is wrong with justification from the Magisterium of the Church, rooted in Holy Scripture and Tradition, rather than attacking me personally. Even if you were convinced that my words were sinful, should you not practice love for the sinner and focus your anger at the sin?

            Twice now you have replied, saying nothing of the content, and hinting that you “know” who/what I am. No doubt, I am a sinner — but a Catholic sinner.

            Paradoxically, the prayer we Eastern Christians pray using prayer beads is the Jesus Prayer: Jesus, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

  14. Christine Lehman

    Hi – I am also a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic. I don’t want to get involved with your argument with Pascal. Just wanted to say I found some good information in your post about the traditional form of the Rosary. May I suggest you look into the Eastern prayer called the “Akathist to Mary”? I think those who love the Rosary and Our Blessed Lady will find it beautiful and inspiring as well. God bless!

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